Wow...

[palsgraf_polka]

I just finished reading Escape by Carolyn Jessop.

http://tinyurl.com/5k99tg

She was one of 14 women married to a man of high rank in the FLDS cult led by Warren Jeffs and the same group that has been in the news lately.

This book was horrifying.

So if any of you think that the government was wrong in taking these children away (as I actually did until a few hours ago), read this book.

Comments

[supervenusfreak.livejournal.com]

The courts are actually considering giving the children back to them. I just heard on the news that some groups are calling it a victory for the parents, because the authorities never really proved that the children were being abused...

Blind stupid fucking Texasssssssss

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

Having read similar books by people who have left the Amish, I don't really think such a book would change my mind.

[palsgraf-polka.livejournal.com]

Eh, to each their own. I've been sort of ambivalent on the whole thing in Texas with the FLDS and the children being taken from the YFZ compound, but after reading this book and knowing that the children in this book were in that compound, just made me sad for those kids. I mean, I have no issue with polygamy or religious fundamentalism (as long as it doesn't bother me or get into political control), but there was some serious abuse going on there. To be honest, I don't really know much about the Amish outside of the horse and buggy thing and the house building. I'd have to read more to see if there are similarities.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

I have a LOT of Amish friends. I feel sorry for their children, too. I don't think that gives me, or anyone else, a right to barge in and take them to raise them the way I think is right.

A child who is being abused -- starved, beaten, raped -- should be removed. We don't allow adults to be treated that way, and we certainly shouldn't allow children to be treated that way. Other than that, though, we really do need to allow parents to parent. Even when we don't particularly think they are doing the best job of it.

So what was in the book that particularly got to you? Do you believe the children are routinely beaten (beyond what most would accept as spanking, which I also dislike but would make allowance for)?

[palsgraf-polka.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah...the husband and this one wife routinely physically and verbally abused the children (and the other wives) every day. Also the children were encouraged to abuse and beat the other children of less favored wives. There was near starvation due to the lack of money, they were living in filth due to having too many children to care for, and it was horrible. If it was just a cult thing, honestly, I'd have no issue with it - to each their own. But this was serious abuse.

ETA: The children of the author opened up to her a couple of months after they had left for good and also admitted that some of the older children were molesting the younger children from other wives in the house.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

While that sounds like a horrible way to live, and my heart goes out to the children who have to endure that kind of lifestyle every day, I find it difficult to justify removing the children. I was abused (verbally and physically) in public schools, and yet few people think we should abolish the public school system!

Serious abuse, to me, has to mean physical harm that requires medical treatment, such as broken bones. It's a tough standard, but anything less than that means we can remove children just because their parents spank them, etc. Also, poverty is the number one reason why children are removed from their homes and families (usually cited as inadequate nutrition or housing or clothing), and I have a huge problem with that.

This is a really difficult subject for me. If I were Supreme Goddess of the World, all-knowing and all-powerful, I would certainly give to every child a perfect childhood. That would be my number one priority! But nobody can do that, especially not the government. So we are stuck with children being raised by imperfect parents in an imperfect world.

ps. The molestation should definitely be dealt with, if that is really happening. It should at least be investigated when alleged by the child! But there are also Amish who leave and then write books about the horrible abuse going on in the community. I know some of the people in some of those books, and I know that the authors exaggerated in the extreme. I can't say whether that is happening in this case, but it certainly does happen, especially when someone is trying to make a group look bad (perhaps to get their other family members out, with the help of anti-cult groups or the government?).

[palsgraf-polka.livejournal.com]

Well, and since neither of us are living in that house or in the compound (where the family in the book eventually moved to after Carolyn escaped), we will never know what really happens. And I do respect your opinion. I was horribly abused by my peers in the public school system, but I never faced abuse at the hands of authority figures or my parents in my childhood, so I have no reference point.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. :)